witch modes are good for rock/blues ;help plz

...depends upon where the melody "goes."

...for instance, if the melody note is a 9th note (D-note in Key-of-C), then the Phrygian mode (iii7-5) would work perfectly.

...why? because the notes contained in the Em7-5 chord (iii7-5) are actually the top four notes of a C9th chord.

...something to remember, modes are the sequential note equivalants of scales from within the Ionian or "mother" scale, while the Harmonized-scale chords are the chords created from those modes...like this (Ionian in C):

C = I or 1st-degree or Root = C Major (Ionian) chord
D = II or 2nd-degree = D minor (Dorian) chord
E = III or 3rd-degree = E minor (Phrygian) chord
F = IV or 4th-degree = F Major (Lydian) chord
G = V or 5th-degree = G Major (Mixolydian) chord
A = VI or 6th-degree = A minor (Aeolian) chord <--relative minor of I Major (ie: C6 = Am)
B = VII or 7th-degree = B minor/diminished (Locrian, which is actually m7-5) chord
C' = IIX or 8th-degree (named Octave, Italian for "8th") = C' Major chord

...you probably already recognize that the common three-chord progressions (folk, blues, pop, etc.) uses I, IV and V chords.

...try "strumming" each of the above chords, in order shown, ie:  C, Dm, Em, F, G, Am, Bm or Bdim, then C again...notice how they ALL sound VERY much alike? Well, that's because the all share pretty much the same notes, just in differring order (notably: C6 = Am).

thanks tele-man i kind of under stand ;can you give me a little more help ,i have been working hard on under standing these modes ;

bull_dog998...you still interested in "...a little more help?"

...first, here are some VERY general statements about using modes:

IONIAN = the Major scale we commonly use for just about all songs.

DORIAN = a minor-sounding scale (think Carlos Santana style playing here).

PHRYGIAN = a minor scale with a gypsy- or oriental-like sound; Fusion-style songs.

LYDIAN = the 'bright' Major scale; goes well with Major Seventh chords.

MIXOLYDIAN = a dual, Major / dominant scale; used a lot by jazz players; a Blues Scale with raised third.

AEOLIAN = the "pure" NATURAL minor scale (directly related to Ionian scale); also called a Relative Minor; Soul ballad songs.

LOCRIAN = a minor-sounding scale with a gypsy- or spanish/latin/flamenco sound; also called "half-diminished" scale.

...ready for a second part?

Old Tele man wrote:

bull_dog998...you still interested in "...a little more help?"

...first, here are some VERY general statements about using modes:

IONIAN = the Major scale we commonly use for just about all songs.

DORIAN = a minor-sounding scale (think Carlos Santana style playing here).

PHRYGIAN = a minor scale with a gypsy- or oriental-like sound; Fusion-style songs.

LYDIAN = the 'bright' Major scale; goes well with Major Seventh chords.

MIXOLYDIAN = a dual, Major / dominant scale; used a lot by jazz players; a Blues Scale with raised third.

AEOLIAN = the "pure" NATURAL minor scale (directly related to Ionian scale); also called a Relative Minor; Soul ballad songs.

LOCRIAN = a minor-sounding scale with a gypsy- or spanish/latin/flamenco sound; also called "half-diminished" scale.

...ready for a second part?

Yes, but 1st a small add if I may...Aeolian = Heavy metal and hard rock songs especially as the parallel minor for a song in a major key ( hope that makes sense) similar to substituting as an example, A pent minor in a song that is key of A major. OK Otm, eagerly awaiting the continuation of your lesson.

YES;  Old Tele man; the second part plz,and last post was great,

...OK, recalling that most melody typically consists of a series of notes that start at one spot (tonality-wise, ie: bass or treble, or pitch-wise) and progress or move either to or toward another spot (bass to treble, root to octave, etc.). With a static rhythm chord, you're pretty much "stuck" within the scale (major or minor) that you started with, so, most movement is limited to within the same key-octave. This is not always the rule however:

...here's a "blues" example that uses the 'jazzy' three-chord turnaround that starts in one key (for one chord), passes through a second key (for the second chord) and ends up in a third key (actually back to the Root key). In the Key-of-E (at the nut), we replace the 'simple' E, B7, E ending with E, Gbm7, B7, E...like this:

1) begin with any note within the Ionian E-scale (E chord)...usually on a bass string.

2) when the rhythm chord changes to Gbm7, move into a Dorian mode on the bass/middle strings.

3) when the rhythm chord changes to B7, move into a Mixolydian mode on the middle/treble strings.

4) when the rhythm chord changes to E, move back to Ionian scale on the treble strings.

...granted, this is a rather 'mechanical' explanation and example, but it illustrates one way the process works.

...FWIW, the above turnaround is typically 'described' in jazz as:  IIm - V - I  (or, more correctly: iim7-V7-I).


...now, Part II of my first post -- here are the progressions commonly associated to go "good" with each scale/mode:

IONIAN = I-IV-V,  II-V-I,  I-VI-IV-V,  I-III-IV-I,  I-IV-I,  I-V-I

DORIAN = Im-IV,  Im-IIm,  Im-bIII-IV,  Im-Vm-VI-Im,  Im-IIm-bIII-Im

PHRYGIAN = Im-bII,  Im-bIII-bII,  Im-bVIIm,  Im-bII-bVIIm

LYDIAN = I-II,  I-II-VII,  I-VII,  I-II-VII

MIXOLYDIAN = I-VII,  I-VII-IV, I-Vm, I-IV, I-VI, VIIm

AEOLIAN = Im-bVII-bVI,  Im-IVm,  Im-Vm,  Im-bIII-bVII

LOCRIAN = Io-bII, Im7b5-IVm7,  Im7-5-bVIIm7  (note: "o" denotes "diminished")

...hopefully, this "helps" rather than confuses!

tele this was very help full ;thank you

Old Tele man wrote:

...OK, recalling that most melody typically consists of a series of notes that start at one spot (tonality-wise, ie: bass or treble, or pitch-wise) and progress or move either to or toward another spot (bass to treble, root to octave, etc.). With a static rhythm chord, you're pretty much "stuck" within the scale (major or minor) that you started with, so, most movement is limited to within the same key-octave. This isn't the rule however:

...here's a "blues" example that uses the 'jazzy' three-chord turnaround that starts in one key (for one chord), passes through a second key (for the second chord) and ends up in a third key (actually back to the Root key). In the Key-of-E (at the nut), we replace the 'simple' E, B7, E ending with E, Gbm7, B7, E...like this:

1) begin with any note within the Ionian E-scale (E chord)...usually on a bass string.

2) when the rhythm chord changes to Gbm7, move into a Dorian mode on the bass/middle strings.

3) when the rhythm chord changes to B7, move into a Mixolydian mode on the middle/treble strings.

4) when the rhythm chord changes to E, move back to Ionian scale on the treble strings.

...granted, this is a rather 'mechanical' explanation and example, but it illustrates one way the process works.

...FWIW, the above turnaround is typically 'described' in jazz as:  IIm - V - I  (or, more correctly: iim7-V7-I).


...now, Part II of my first post -- here are the progressions commonly associated to go "good" with each scale/mode:

IONIAN = I-IV-V,  II-V-I,  I-VI-IV-V,  I-III-IV-I,  I-IV-I,  I-V-I

DORIAN = Im-IV,  Im-IIm,  Im-bIII-IV,  Im-Vm-VI-Im,  Im-IIm-bIII-Im

PHRYGIAN = Im-bII,  Im-bIII-bII,  Im-bVIIm,  Im-bII-bVIIm

LYDIAN = I-II,  I-II-VII,  I-VII,  I-II-VII

MIXOLYDIAN = I-VII,  I-VII-IV, I-Vm, I-IV, I-VI, VIIm

AEOLIAN = Im-bVII-bVI,  Im-IVm,  Im-Vm,  Im-bIII-bVII

LOCRIAN = Io-bII, Im7b5-IVm7,  Im7-5-bVIIm7  (note: "o" denotes "diminished")

...hopefully, this "helps" rather than confuses!

I  had no idea whatsoever that somebody had mapped out which chord progressions sounded best with which modes. Thank you, that is more helpful than you could know.

...something to remember about modes and scales:

1) melody consists of NOTES played over accompanying CHORDS, but...

2) different CHORDS (re-harmonization) can accompany the same melody NOTES!

...which is part of the underlying reason the BLUES PENTATONIC scale can use BOTH major and minor chords, and likewise use BOTH major and minor-based scales/modes!

...think about it!