...have you played the C-major scale? tried playing any of the MODES?

Nope I haven’t yet is there an exercise you can recommend to get used to using all of these modes and notes and chords

and Is there some quick guide to knowing what goes with what, in harmony and melody?

...to play the CMajor (Ionian) scale, you start at the C-note at fret 3 on the A5-string and play each DEGREE note, e.g: ROOT(C), 2nd(D), 3rd(E), 4th(F), 5th(G), 6th(A), 7th(B), ending up on the OCTAVE(C') at fret 1 on the B2-string (coincidentally the middle-C note).

...the first question you might have is "do I play the notes UP a string or across the strings?" Both answers are correct, but each has benefits and limitations. For now, you'll play across the strings, meaning you will play as many open string notes as possible and be moving from bass string over to the treble strings without moving UP the neck.

...in playing the CMajor scale, here are the 'step-by-step' notes and strings you'll play (fret 0 = open string):

C (R) at fret 3, string A5
D (2) at fret 0, string D4
E (3) at fret 2, string D4
F (4) at fret 3, string D4
G (5) at fret 0, string G3
A (6) at fret 2, string G3
B (M7) at fret 0, string B2 <--this is a Major 7th (M7) not a dominant 7th (7)
C' (R') at fret 1, string B2

...this sequence can be continued UP the B2-string and over to the E1-string and up to the C" note at fret 8, but you only do that as a "octave" voicing for melody.

...for now, concentrate on just playing smoothly the notes of the first octave from A5-string over to the B2-string. Play them SLOWLY forward (bass to treble) and backward (treble to bass), striving for clarity and cleanliness of sound...then gradually work up to faster and faster picking...eventually you'll be able to "rip" the notes off almost machine-gun style for "fast" runs and riffs.

...you are practicing the Ionian or "Major Key" scale, and since we're in the "Key of C" it's a C-Ionian or CMajor scale. (Do you wish to see this CMajor scale shown in "notation" illustration?)

C (R) at fret 3, string A5
D (2) at fret 0, string D4
E (3) at fret 2, string D4
F (4) at fret 3, string D4
G (5) at fret 0, string G3
A (6) at fret 2, string G3
B (7) at fret 0, string B2
C' (R') at fret 1, string B2

if you mean this its ok i have it, thats great im able to do it and sounds clean to

(Do you wish to see this CMajor scale shown in "notation" illustration?)well it cant do any harm if its not this

...OK, next we move from the CMajor SCALE and to the first MODE, the Dminor (Dorian) MODE:



...in this illustration I've also shown (dotted diamond and circles) the notes for the Dm chord, notice that each of these notes is contained within the Dorian Mode...so when you play a Dorain Mode in the Key-of-C, you're playing over a Dminor chord.

D(R) at fret 0, string D4
E(2) at fret 2, string D4
F(m3) at fret 3, string D4
G(4) at fret 0, string G3
A(5) at fret 2, string G3
B(6) at fret 0, string B2
C(7) at fret 1, string B2 <---notice this is a dominant 7th, not a Major 7 (M7) as for the C-scale.
D'(R') at fret 3, string B2

...if you play a TRIAD 3-note chord its Dm, but if you play a 4-note TETRACHORD, its Dm7. The difference? just how many notes from the MODE you play simultaneously...generally, simple songs use triads and complex songs often use tetrachords.

...TEST TIME: can you tell me why this is a Dminor 7th chord? (hint: look at its degree notes)

==== what's coming up ===========

...we'll be working our way through the whole HARMONIZED scale & chords for the Key of C, like this:

CMajor scale (Ionian) & CM7 chord
Dminor mode (Dorian) & Dm7 chord
Eminor mode (Phrygian) & Em7 chord
FMajor scale/mode (Lydian) & FM7 chord <---can be "seen" as either scale or mode
GMajor scale/mode (Mixolydian) & G7 chord <---dominant 7th; either scale or mode
Aminor mode (Aeolian) & Am7 chord
Bminor mode (Locrian) & Bm7-5 chord

...I'll explain "why / how" the two "Perfect" interval positions can be either scales/modes.

when i looked at this the first thing i said was why did you call it Dm7

...if you play a TRIAD 3-note chord its Dm, but if you play a 4-note TETRACHORD, its Dm7. The difference? just how many notes from the MODE you play simultaneously...generally, simple songs use triads and complex songs often use tetrachords.

i can see the triad but where is the other note to make it a tetrachord (Dm7)

To be honest im not that sure what your showing me here

just one thing about modes if they all have the same notes why have all the scale the only difference is the root note ?

to get things straight a mode is,  all the major scale notes, when your start other scales with a different root note like the dorian,phrygian ect or are the scales themselfs the mode dorian,phrygian and not the indidual notes within the scale like in the dorian scale is D a mode or is it the whole scale

...there are two references here: Dm7 for the MODE sequence of notes (because it contains a dominant 7th degree) and the Dm (triad 3-notes) or Dm7 (4-notes) CHORDS.

...while the MODE contains notes outlining a Dm7 chord, the actual chord played depends upon how many notes are used: (a) if only the R, m3, 5 notes are played its a Dm chord; (b) if the R, m3, 5 and d7 notes are played its a Dm7 chord.

...the DORIAN MODE is a "Dm7" MODE (like the IONIAN scale is a "CM7" scale) and the CHORD pictured is a Dm. To "make" it a Dm7 chord you lower the D-note at fret 2 on B2-string down to the C-note (the dominant 7th degree), which changes the notes from Dm (R, 5, R, m3) to Dm7 (R, 5, 7, m3). I think I should've shown BOTH the Dm and Dm7 chords...although my emphasis is on the MODE and (first) its TRIAD CHORD, then (later) its TETRACHORD.

...why? because one of the exercises is to play the C harmonized scale UP the treble strings using only triads.

I think it has just clicked your using the open D string aswell ok am i right ?

...exactly, the open "D" (fret 0 D4-string) is the ROOT-degree note for the Dorian MODE and thus the "starting" note for the MODE scale.

im sorry thats why i was thinking there was only 3 notes how silly of me! ok great

...next, we move over two degree notes from the C root note and begin the Phrygian mode on the "E" note creating Phrygian (Em7) scale:



...when you play a Phrygian Mode in the Key-of-C, you're playing over an Eminor (triad) or Eminor 7th chord (if tetrachord).

E(R) at fret 2, string D4
F(2) at fret 3, string D4
G(m3) at fret 0, string G3
A(4) at fret 2, string G3
B(5) at fret 0, string B2
C(+5) at fret 1, string B2
D(7) at fret 3, string B2  <---note: dominant 7th, not Major 7th
E'(R') at fret 0, string E1

...notice that there are two V-degree notes in this scale, a 'regular' 5th degree and an augmented or sharp 5th, for this reason you might sometimes see this scale written as Em7+5 or Em7#5...this sharped 5th does not change the CHORD created from this MODE (e.g.: triad: R, m3, 5; and tetrachord: R, m3, 5, 7). In reality, the sharp-5 note can be viewed as a lowered or flatted 6th (b6) degree note.

...to play a triad, the "D" note (7th) on the B2 string is not fretted and the "B" (5th) note is played open. The chords would be (bass to treble):

Em = E, G, B, E
Em7 = E, G, D, E  <---notice no 5th in this chord.

...a couple "tricks" to understanding MODES are: (A) play the mode first, then immediatly play its triad (or tetrachord) so you "hear" and associate the two (sequential MODE with simultaneous CHORD); (B) using only triads on the three treble strings, play the harmonized scale chords: C, Dm, Em, F, G, Am, Bdim "up" the neck.

...since we've only covered C, Dm and Em so far, play only those for now. Sound familiar? Recognize any songs using those chords?

just to ask you a quick question
E(R) at fret 2, string D4
F(2) at fret 3, string D4
G(m3) at fret 0, string G3
A(4) at fret 2, string G3
B(5) at fret 0, string B2
C(+5) at fret 1, string B2
D(7) at fret 3, string B2  <---note: dominant 7th, not Major 7th
E'(R') at fret 0, string E1

is this is only a scale because the fingering for both these chords  Em = E, G, B, E

Em7 = E, G, D, E  .are not in you illustration  is that right

C, Dm and Em so far, play only those for now. Sound familiar? Recognize any songs using those chords?  have played them all sorts of ways cant say i do should i have oops

...so far, I've only shown you "open" string chords at the nut, so you wouldn't be going UP the neck but rather 'across' the neck...(this will change when we get to the Locrian mode).

...here's the harmonized scale of triad chords for the Key of C going UP the neck (note: RED = Major triads, BLUE = minor triads)



...although we're getting ahead of ourselves a little bit here, notice the "symmetry" among all these chords:

A) the 5th-degree for every chord is on the G3-string.
B) the ROOT for every chord is on the B2-string.
C) the 3rd-degree for every chord is on the E1-string.

...practice playing them both forward (C up to C') and backward (C' down to C).

thats cool at least there is something i understand its quite easy to play to

...excellent!

...Now when you practice the Ionian scale and Dorian and Phrygian modes, you have two chords (the "open" string version at nut and the triad version up the treble strings) to alternate between...although containing the same notes each will "sound" ever so slightly 'different' to your ears...the reason is the last note played is different, and our ears tend to "remember" the last note more than all the sounds before it...especially when the chord is strummed and the strings aren't really being sounded "simultaneously" but simply "almost" simultaneously.

you never answered this for me though
just to ask you a quick question
E(R) at fret 2, string D4
F(2) at fret 3, string D4
G(m3) at fret 0, string G3
A(4) at fret 2, string G3
B(5) at fret 0, string B2
C(+5) at fret 1, string B2
D(7) at fret 3, string B2  <---note: dominant 7th, not Major 7th
E'(R') at fret 0, string E1

is this is only a scale because the fingering for both these chords  Em = E, G, B, E

Em7 = E, G, D, E  .are not in you illustration  is that right?

...yes, the notes of the Phrygian mode are E, F, G, A, B, C, D, E' and yes BOTH chords were there (but probably not very well explained by me). Here are the triad Em chord (left) and the tetrachord Em7 (right):



...notice the only difference is the addition of the dominant 7th degree note "D" to the regular Em chord....notice that the E6 and A5 strings are NOT mentioned here, because we're 'building' the chords from the MODE notes which are traditionally limited to one octave, which for "C-Phrygian" (meaning "Phrygian Mode in Key of C") is E to E'.

...BOTH chords "work" with the Phrygian mode because they only contain notes from the MODE, specifically:

A) the Em chord shown contains E(Root), G(m3), B(5th) and E(root')
B) the Em7 chord shown contains E(Root), G(m3), D(7th) and E(root')

...again, either chord, Em or Em7, can be played with the Phrygian mode.

What's the difference? Well, a triad, because it contains only 3 notes, is considered a "simple" chord, while a tetrachord, contains an third(*) "third-interval" degree note (the dominant 7th or Major 7th) and is considered a more advanced chord. Here, "advanced" implies that the chord can "express" or "sound" different tonalities beyond those of the "simple" triad...some advanced chords can actually become "complex" (usually in jazz).

NOTE: (A) the "first" 3-interval is Root to III; (B) the "second" 3-interval is III to V; and, thus, (C) the "third" 3-interval becomes the V to VII, which is "how/why" the Major 7th (ie: VII = Major 7) and dominant 7th (ie: bVII = d7 or just 7) notes are determined.  Triad chords only use R, 3, 5....while Tetrachords contain a 7th, either a M7 or a d7, depending upon which MODE they're created from:

(I) = M7
(ii) = m7
(iii) = m7
(IV) = M7
(V) = d7 <---dominant 7th!
(vi) = m7
(vii) = m7-5 or diminished

...notice how I've used the "proper" UPPERcase ROMAN numerals to designate the Major chords (I, IV, V) and LOWERcase numerals to designate the minor chords (ii, iii, vi, vii). Although not used often, they ARE seen quite often in Music Theory books.

(I) = M7
(ii) = m7
(iii) = m7
(IV) = M7
(V) = d7 <---dominant 7th!
(vi) = m7
(vii) = m7-5 or diminished

How did all of these note /degrees turn into 7ths ?

and intervals why are the called 3-interval ?

...notice how I've used the "proper" UPPERcase ROMAN numerals to designate the Major chords (I, IV, V) and LOWERcase numerals to designate the minor chords (ii, iii, vi, vii). Although not used often, they ARE seen quite often in Music Theory books.
But they are all m7 what does that mean ?

beth wrote:

How did all of these note /degrees turn into 7ths?

...it depends upon whether you're using TRIADS or TETRAchords, remember ALL of the notes are "in" each MODE, it's just whether you're using a simple 3-note chord (triad) or a more complex 4-note (tetrachord):

(I) = Major(3-note chord) or M7(4-note chord)
(ii) = minor(3-note chord) or m7(4-note chord)
(iii) = minor(3-note chord) or m7(4-note chord)
(IV) = Major(3-note chord) or M7(4-note chord)
(V) = Major(3-note chord) or d7(4-note chord) <---dominant 7th!
(vi) = minor(3-note chord) or m7(4-note chord)
(vii) = diminished(3-note chord) or m7-5(4-note chord) <---considered a minor chord

beth wrote:

and intervals why are the called 3-interval?

...because in music an "interval" means pitch distance "between" two tones.

As stated before, the TRIAD is composed of TWO 'stacked' (one after the other) "third-intervals" (e.g.: I-to-II-to-III is a interval of three degrees), which would be like this:

A) 1st "third-interval" is ROOT-to-III
B) 2nd "third-interval" is III-to-V

and the 4-note TETRACHORD is composed on THREE 'stacked' "third-intervals," or "...one more" "third-interval" 'stacked' on top of a TRIAD:

C) 3rd "third-interval" is V-to-VII <---which is where the M7 and d7 degree notes are derived

beth wrote:

But they are all m7 what does that mean ?

...since a MODE scale contains all the notes for either TRIAD or TETRA chords, it's normal to show the "maximum" chord possible, with the understanding that the "7th's" are omitted for TRIADS (as shown above).

Remember: TRIAD = "simple" chords with only three notes: ROOT, III, V....but, those notes can be MINOR, AUGMENTED or DIMINISHED.  While, TETRAchord = chords with four notes: ROOT, III, V and VII...and, again, those notes can be MINOR, AUGMENTED or DIMINISHED. (we haven't really covered AUG or DIM yet, but we will)

One sec reading this (I) = Major(3-note chord) or M7(4-note chord)I believe that (I) IS MADE UP OF 3 OR 4 NOTES I thought it was one  of the notes in a chord am I loosing something here

Also in the diagram above of Em and Em7 if your were to play them what fingering would you use since your not using 5th and 6 th strings

Believe it or not I feel im getting a grasp on this slowly but surely

beth wrote:

One sec reading this (I) = Major(3-note chord) or M7(4-note chord) I believe that (I) IS MADE UP OF 3 OR 4 NOTES I thought it was one  of the notes in a chord am I loosing something here

...correct, the MODE scale has 7-notes, but its TRIAD (R, m3, 5) chord uses only 3-notes, while its TETRA (R, m3, 5, 7) chord uses 4-notes from the MODE scale.

beth wrote:

Also in the diagram above of Em and Em7 if your were to play them what fingering would you use since your not using 5th and 6 th strings

...since the E6- and A5-strings are not being used the Em chord would use just one finger (other strings "open") and the Em7 would use two fingers (two "open" strings)...which fingers to use is really up to you, but *I* tend you use my middle finger for Em and middle finger and little finger for that Em7 (where: "X" = no played):



...think of TETRAchord as simply a TRIAD with an "added" M7 or d7-degree note...that's the only difference, e.g.: instead of using three notes from the MODE, we've "extended" the chord by using four notes from the MODE...and ALL those notes are at "third-interval" pitch distances.